Rob Lim, better known as Dirty Sanchez, discusses his love for photography, Hip Hop, and dance.
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A broke degenerate hooligan documents conversations about being a Bboy, Breakin', Hip Hop, Dance, Art, Music, Creativity, Innovation, and the slow subtle crumble of society in audio form.
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[Music]
in this episode I talk on a video call
with one of my closest homies he is an
up rocker and a photographer and low-key
one of the funniest people I know the
song welcome to the jungle by Guns and
Roses always reminds me of this guy's
crazy shenanigans please enjoy the
episode with my good buddy
dirty sanchez do you know what you are
you're in a jungle baby you're gonna die
[Music]
what's up everybody welcome to the show
today I've got the dirtiest guest of
them all he's a good friend of mine
probably one of my best friends and I'm
proud to have him on this show we're
gonna be talking about some interesting
stuff so I hope you guys are ready for
the dirty sanchez himself Robert Lim
what's up man how you doing I'm doing
well
I noticed those kovat beards just a so I
had to catch up yeah we got them kovat
beards going on dude yo so what's up man
- I wanted to bring you on today because
like photography I mean you've been a
photographer for a long time you've been
a part of the dance scene as a
photographer as well as a dancer you
know almost as long as I've known you
and so you've seen a lot of stuff in the
scene
definitely have like captured a lot of
really amazing moments as a photographer
so I wanted to like bring you onto the
show to talk about you know a little bit
about your photography history with it
because I feel like photography is is
not necessarily an element of hip-hop
per se but it's an element that is
preserving the other elements you know
what I'm saying and so I feel like it's
a very important and underlooked thing
in the scene that you know we all kind
of experience but we don't give credit
to it or credence to it and so that's
that's kind of why I wanted to bring you
on here
and so with that being said I want to
know what really got you into
photography I think it's my older sister
she was into photography and I learned
the film nothing as far as developing
the film setting up a camera manually
for the shutter the habit sure and it
feels like you're a sharpshooter when
it's sniper even went back to just kind
of like heroes or people that inspire me
Martha Cooper she was like the first
photographer to take pictures of b-boys
and emcees and just hip-hop party
I think her first picture she has is
that like I'm some b-boys got arrested
and she couldn't take the picture of
dumb legally hmm but it was able to take
a picture not looking at them and
pressing it down so she was able to
circumvent it in a way so it's like I
know it was like the most like hip hop
gangster thing to do about like being
inside a police station doing something
that you're not supposed to do but
recognizing it's an important moment
yeah yeah that's interesting it's that
way is that when they they're like cops
came in like shut down what was it
people summit like 90-something 96-97
during like the 70s and 80s oh is it
okay no wow saw books are going to be
black and white you're going to see a
young kid and like the short running
shorts on you know the side like the b2
shorts super beat Street even a little
bit before that the racism in the cop
but you can just see like these kids
they're dancing on the street and up to
no good
oh yeah and they're all like 10 years
old and yeah yeah boy beat boy age yeah
the real b-boy age yeah now that yeah
now the 10 year olds are taken over
again so it's a circle of life
yeah just raise them up
yeah yeah so that's tight um yeah I mean
that that's a very powerful moment and I
think in hip-hop history and and you
know if it weren't for someone to like
think of you know grabbing a camera
taking a picture and preserving that
moment I don't think we'd even be able
to remember that moment and I mean I
could think of a lot of other moments in
hip-hop history that you know we're
important you know and so I guess you
know in that in that moment of
realization like hey I better pull my
camera out and take this picture this
looks like a great moment to capture
what what goes on in your mind to like
you know be able to define that moment
and and how do you really frame that you
know I think it goes like as easy as
when you see family portraits honestly
everyone takes family portraits and when
you see the pictures there's sometimes
you could definitely see the love and
the relationship between everyone
sometimes people are just kind of
putting up with it what I notice
naturally even from like like Martha
Cooper's photos and just other b-boy
photos everyone who's not even
photogenic and photogenic doesn't mean
like beauty but there's a level of
vanity where people are like you know
what this is a woman that lasts forever
I always look cool guess what we're
taking a cold picture right now even
though some people they tried the hard
as you could see but everyone's ready to
go as if like this is gonna be the last
picture they ever see before I get
locked up or our dead yeah so and like
everyone inherently does that in the
scene I notice I'm always trying to make
sure now to take pictures of people like
1/3 and Cruz or even if they're really
good friends yeah or something you're
not even good friends or it as a
practice spot they mainly just come
together like we are so cool you better
take their picture right now it you know
it's kind of baked in the culture to do
that I mean I feel like just the idea of
freezes in breaking is like hit a cool
pose look cool as if someone was gonna
take a picture of you I mean I feel like
that's the
you know overarching like idea behind
freezing and so it's kind of baked into
what we do already so I can see how that
would be so that that's tight
did you start photography before you
danced or was it did it come after I
mean like I remember when I met you ding
that was like early 2000s but I knew you
were already dancing you were up rockin
and stuff but I'm pretty sure you were
already taking pictures - so which K
Carson and did those bleed into each
other at all I mean like people as like
a you know as a artistic kind of thing
yeah I like in high school I started
doing photography that was like before
we met over in junior college yeah yeah
yeah it's really tough because it was
considered sports photography for me and
it's how I had to approach it so
sometimes I would just go through so
many rolls of film and also finding
people that were also decent and knew
what they're talking about if while I
was asking them to do certain moves or
freezes or experimenting what looked
cool so that was kind of a rough blend
but then when I starting against as a
dance understood how certain body
mechanics works like what visually looks
good versus what looks good in one
instance because yeah plenty of pictures
where people have crashed or that move
was just incredibly bad on video but
that the moment was the way the person
looked the adrenaline rushing through
all it just looked amazing
maybe the crowd was like oh this is
gonna be great
you didn't capture disappointment your
scroll through your photos in one of
those instances and you're like dude
this crowd is so hyped and then you like
you know you took action shots so
there's like 20 photos and then like at
the instant that they realize that he
crashed you see you know their
expression go from happy and excited to
like oh damn
why am i cheering that must have hurt I
can say when I was also managing the
dance crew yeah when someone was they're
gonna flip and I did too a picture a pre
and then like a post when they flopped
but enjoyable performance even though we
were not like the most like sought-after
entertainment that yeah a crowd you can
imagine this and people but let's just
say these people have gone well beyond
and then 20 of music videos I'm very
proud yeah that's tight so like I guess
you're going back to what you're saying
with the like you know seeing cool
freezes catching like a certain moment
like what is it that you look for and in
terms of like lighting and the way that
they're facing you or like I mean cuz
when I look at your photos I see that
there's like I don't know it seems like
you just caught this really weird
position that people end up in and I
know that's part of the dance too but
it's like I feel like if I took that
picture it look like sh*t and you know
maybe it comes with a good camera too
which I don't have but you know like
what what is that that magic moment that
you're looking for or is there even a
magic moment that you're really looking
for you know do you just see it in their
eyes when they're dancing like oh dude
I'm about to hit this move and you're
listening to the song and it's like dude
he's gonna hit this beat I can tell you
know what I mean is that is that does
that go through your mind so when I was
starting a lot of it was guesswork you
understand this kind of the technical
aspect about understanding lighting
mm-hmm I noticed that was always the
hugest issues because events were not
conducive to their own or activity yes
crazy dark so sometimes I experimented
with flash before but the one thing is
is that like that's also going to bother
the dancer yeah so I've been cognizant
of like if I do flash moment where like
their move will enter into like it's not
going to disrupt what they're gonna be
doing and oh another thing - it took us
fears about knowing certain dancers and
what they're getting into as far as like
oh they have so much momentum going here
they're not gonna stop there this will
burn down man it will make them this
will distract them so a lot of also
going with the camera equipment a lot of
that also had to go with better
technology as well as people start
seeing that I was offered more goodwill
and kind of meh preserving a legacy but
documenting the times they were more
receptive to taking pictures and that
allowed me to pose them and prop them in
certain locations yeah I see what you're
saying so okay yeah so I could see how
that the the lighting would be a real
big issue in a jam I mean there's only
so much you can do really with a camera
to make that to make that good but yeah
I know like you as a dancer I bet that
helps a lot to like be able to see I
guess predict like what's about to
happen I mean and you're also very
knowledgeable about like that that
particular dancer usually you've seen
them before you know what they're
capable of so you can kind of predict
what's going on so I imagine that helps
a lot
with it you know and I think that is you
know what makes some of your photos so
good is that you can like predict that
in a way and be able to capture these
moments so I'm curious what is the what
is your favorite moment you've captured
on camera
the two that are like two categories I
like to separate or like ones where I
can oppose the individual mm-hmm that's
where like we have a setting and I'm
counting one two three we're kind of
documenting and another one it's just
like when is that a jam and it just it
was so hype it was so dope and then
like everyone goes crazy over it you
know and people always hit me up I could
say like at least like Jan an event
definitely a freestyle session I'm
trying to think of like what a more like
there's so many for face off session but
one that I really like that like I've
just seen that on certain flyers but it
doesn't matter to me there's one where
it's Tata he entered with Maschine and
Morris and then like like an air chair
but he looked it up and also he pointed
out his opponent and then like it was
able to hold it but he also had to look
and the Bears that's like I'm calling
you out yeah yeah and then and then like
the importance whether when the
promoters say this is why you come to
jams yeah you feel literally like
there's a point where that's a couple
seconds where you're completely deaf and
everyone else is deaf cuts are screaming
with excitement
yeah somehow they will always energy and
I'm trying to take the picture where I'm
trying not to get way too excited as a
fan yeah yeah that was like one of those
moments where I'm just like that was
great I can say also just from my god
contemporaries or people that are like I
see as crazy better to me there's also
another one with Todd's huh and Zach you
where they did it was a crew battle 20th
freestyle and he did the swing routine
and I want to say Ken Quan caught that
and like when I look at that picture I
felt the same way too
so it's amazing yeah that was just like
I'm wow it's like a mom it's like a
moment where like the crowd got punched
in the face like with the hype nacelle
not a circuit ride weather setup are one
of our friends they we went to had an
event called art Street where there was
a
warehouse that within three months time
was gonna get up bulldoze over oh yeah
come on oh I think I remember that place
yeah
so the warehouse allowed artists to set
up little art spaces and awesome give
links to these pictures to that way you
kind of know what I'm talking about
but there's a picture his name was Quan
and he did this freeze and there was a
checkerboard floor lighting in the
background and even if I took them
without it like it looked like this
abstract mural and it was incredible
yeah if I had remember that photo yeah
and then yeah and there was like this
purple lighting and it was just like
like I look at it I'm like did I take
this picture did I do too much I was
just like I I I personally love it some
people like Gemma be like there's a lot
of stuff going on this way again it's
like one of my personal please wait I
mean it's that's the artists union
growing like dude this is something that
I'm really proud of her like you know
that I really I think I really nailed it
with it which you know and everybody has
their own opinions about art so you know
but I would say if you like it then
that's what matters really yeah but yeah
I think I'm pretty sure I remember that
photo I might have even been there
during that thing but anyways I'd say
I'm just real quick like also another
person who's in the scene always come
right little Xiao I need the muster up
enough money to because I there's one
print that I definitely want to get so
it's wing zero and then II say and I
forgot who else better so not of their
crew but I think it was in Times Square
and then like wings are oh it's like
bending on his toes and then the other
two or just check suppose in a way it
just looked incredible
so I'm like like I need to make sure I
have enough money I'm like I definitely
wanna get a Prince of them
it's like artist or together artist but
yeah that was a really dope photo that
I'm like wow do you sell your prints
I've tried to in the past and some
people like if they have anniversary
jams are people that like I feel like a
connection to I say oh let me give this
to you it's like I know I I have one of
a Vince your brother where he's in a
headstand and then the tide came in and
the water washes off you took the photo
that's a hell funny photo yeah it's fun
yeah he has like a main YouTube account
at there
I know he's got it on something but yeah
that's funny yeah I'm curious actually
about you know the photography world
because it's you know in terms of like
selling stuff
I feel like photographers do a big
service to the scene and I don't know
how much the scene like actually like
pays photographers or whatever I know I
didn't see in photographers get their
photos like taking all of it you know
they're they're being like put on flyers
they're putting all over Instagram and
other social media and stuff I guess how
do you feel about it when like you see
someone like basically take your photo
and just hit crop out your you know your
um your watermark and and use it as
their own like that I feel like that's
kind of a dirty dirty dirty trick but I
see a lot of people do it I'm sorry
like resentful from it I'm especially
because I was just trying to get better
and then just like oh let me get
credited and sometimes you know you
don't get credit especially for like you
believe like they should be doing the
same thing or they feel like well you
got a picture of me so that's good
enough yeah but I I look at how I was
kind of like how DJ's are because like
there's a certain point where like
they're mixtapes were getting played and
they they did all the work for the
production yeah not like not like they
sampled this and that and you create a
loop and that was the end of that or
maybe they did or they did crazy drum
samples and another DJ's playing it
because they don't want their videos
taken down for
music copyright strikes but I noticed
with thumb and I like even though
they're like let's just say like other
musical performers they accept it of
like what the culture and technology is
mm-hmm
they're draws more like if you want move
to come live to your event hire me yeah
let everyone photos they will leave
enough room for them if they want to
crop out we don't care well put but you
guys hire us like hold some accountable
for that
yeah and sometime you to sometimes it's
just a good opportunity I remember let's
say for example are your crew from Japan
they came to the yeah come on you came
to like three different cities and know
four or five I don't I didn't California
and they went to yeah that freestyle
session that was like last year or
something right yeah yeah and also they
what's at the jam when you guys enter in
Pomona and also did Emma with the best
spot the next day and they also came up
to Sacramento for one of our events
mm-hmm for me not to take a chance to
get to know him offered to do like some
photos and everything because this is a
chance for like a crew who I don't know
what their circ*mstances are but they're
like we're about this life yeah
we're not getting paid to do this but we
came to represent this is just a
different City this is a different
country he came to do anything so I also
have to look at it like that because
it's very I don't know what's the word
it's I mean yeah it's you're looking at
it as like these guys are about that
life and as a photographer it's worth it
to you to capture that you know and to
represent that too because that's like
whoa everyone's all about you know yeah
yeah my return it's like if I when I get
the chance I'm like you guys took the
time and saved up enough money to travel
and sometimes when I look at our city
and I'm not to downplay the quality of
our jams but sometimes I'm just like
I've seen you guys 110
dollars like three months ago and the
price here is like two hundred dollars
but you know you drove two hours from
the Bay Area to just I'm about this life
so they goes to like someone's
conviction and like also the vanity and
the ego like what's this really about
yeah so sometimes I'm like yeah we get
to love I do see if I can get some type
of compensation but then I also want to
be able to say they're all for the last
15 years aim it's like I've been a part
of these events that people consider
it's like a moment in their life and I'm
there for ya know I would think being
there for that moment is like a real
important thing as a photographer being
because again yeah you guys are like
capturing that and preserving it I mean
I guess put it like this
before there was like a crap ton of
photographers in the scene you know
there was still jams going on but who
can remember like everything that
happened in those jams especially the
ones that weren't videotaped it's hard
to remember any of that stuff because it
wasn't ever you know captured but then I
know when I see photos from like jams
that I did you know 10 15 even maybe
even 20 years ago it's like you see that
picture and you're like oh dang I
remember that you know what I mean
you know I remember that bad all I
remember like being in that situation I
remember training for that or whatever I
remember seeing that dude train for it
or whatever you know so it kind of
really takes you back and it sucks that
there's not so much stuff that's
available from you know back in the day
but now I feel like there's so much and
and so it's it's gonna be like a very
good preservation of you know the
culture moving forward maybe too good of
one you know I guess we don't need to
remember all them crashes yeah yeah yeah
just the whole social media aspect you
would think there's a saturation of
people with videos and also with
two people have to adapt it used to be
in the culture when I remember I mean
Sacramento when there was a Rocksteady
chapter it was called flora SKLZ um that
yeah it was like if you took dirt like
UV bit someone's move you got sucked in
the face the jam just stopped and like
you got beat up like whoever crew was
starting to beat you up
then matter what happened I've been in
that where like no you you're supposed
to be dancing to get out of gang warfare
but no you just join a dance gang yeah
yeah it was a lot more confrontational I
guess back in the day definitely more
yeah it was chaos I mean really like you
had people coming in that just yeah
didn't care I mean it well and also
there wasn't money in it and there
wasn't like anything so it was just I
feel like people did it more for the the
love of it and stuff so it was like when
someone was basically stomping on you
and saying hey I'm gonna bite your move
or whatever you take it real personally
like nowadays I feel like that kind of
gets brushed off a little bit because
they there's I don't know this kind of
like social media veil to it or whatever
you know there's some kind of like you
know social veil over everything and I
don't know I mean not to say that people
aren't as passionate about it now as
they were before but I feel like you
know they'll there's more incentive to
be like okay I don't I don't need a
fight over this because there's I got
all these other things that are coming
along with it but back in the day it
wasn't like that it's like you know all
you really had was that your moves and
your crew and stuff and so if people
were over there like stomping on it and
you know giving it a bad name and stuff
or just you know dissing it it's you
take that real personally so I could see
why there was way more fights back in
the day and I'm glad that that's over
but it I feel like back then there was a
little more I don't know excitement to
competitions just because of stuff like
that not to say that fighting is a good
thing but you know the drama the drama
makes it interesting for sure you know
I'll say this we're just two recent
examples from at least like my
perspective we went to Mass a monkey's
day and I was front row and like the
finals and then like I believe they just
finished with like top eight thesis is
just walking around and then you see a
TN because you're yelling at each other
and like I don't know where thesis is
also just pissed off like crazy
and he's called and then like a couple
rounds later like all of battleborn came
in and supposedly they just not yet I
remember that yeah yeah yeah I wasn't at
the gym but ya know it was like yeah the
two crews had like beef or something
from back in the day or whatever
whatever whatever happened but yeah the
crew they basically snuck in the gym
just to battle them yeah I mean it's no
good that they're sneaking in and stuff
and like doing that but but know that
that's actually a great moment that was
captured on film because it's like if
you got beef with another crew like I
feel like that's how you handle it you
come and just say hey we're gonna battle
we're not gonna go online and talk crap
we're not gonna you know fight we're not
gonna do this we're not gonna do that
we're just gonna come in and battle you
and guess what it's at your own jam so
you better come correct because we've
been you know training for this we're
gonna come for you you know so I feel I
feel like that was that that's dope
that's dope Oh hopefully there wasn't
any other drama beyond that I mean
hopefully that's where it got squashed
or whatever you know I feel hate still
going day eight in both the rides you're
like what are you doing here
like you like you snuck in where's my
$10 if you're gonna bat him he got a pay
him anyway yeah and one where like also
just coming back to that Pomona Jam
Jesse you've been seeing a Williams his
name is his real name's William smiles
mm-hmm he's from Australia he entered in
with Lancer yeah yeah yeah Austria yeah
I forget his name yet Australian dude no
yeah I know your name is William smiles
but just like it was good talking him
but he also have fierceness in his eyes
but I've never seen the same thing I
know nuts stirring the pot or anything
but it was the same thing when you saw
Pak Pak and also Lucy sky and then I'm
like what I saw the moves I'm like yeah
you definitely just at first you have
that so important to you the way you hit
it the way you get into it but I mean
I'm not part of that I was just like I'm
like oh I see but also for someone to
just like also protect you like well I'm
definitely gonna fly up here and I hope
to see those guys just yeah just to just
show up just to confront in in battle
yeah that's that's some b-boy sh*t for
sure
I mean yeah I've done that in the past
like I've gone to gyms just a battle a
crew with I didn't enter the gym
I didn't do anything else except just
battle them you know usually I stuck
around and like watch the rest of the
jam or whatever or you know whatever but
it was I came I came through to just
battle people though so after those
battles had a bed like I still hate you
okay I know but trust me you you know
what's
Merson you know what's funny is like
actually I was hanging out with one of
the guys that I used to do I'd like go
to the gym just to battle him and his
crew and you know this was back like
frickin ten years at least and then I
was like training with him probably like
a year ago or maybe two years ago or
whatever and like we're all nice to each
other and stuff and I was like dude I
know me and you used to battle all the
freaking time and I don't even remember
why like that's what's funny about it
but I knew that I hated your guts at one
point and I knew you were good and I
knew you knew I was good and we would
battle all the damn time but like to be
honest I don't remember what it was that
set it off and you know and now we're
friends and stuff and you know we'll
train and we give each other tips and
sh*t so I don't know I honestly I think
it was just like - hungry - hungry
b-boys that just you know they want to
make their mark and sh*t so I feel like
that's probably what it was that caused
some weird beef you know probably like
you know one of us lost to each other at
a jam or whatever and then we took it
super personally and just created a
vendetta or whatever you know I don't
know any montage you listen just on a
rocky soundtrack oh gosh yeah I'm like
running up the steps like you're like
well just engage damn
oh ma I got a sweaty hoodie on with no
sleeves on yeah you're running in like
these like horrible converse but I'm
like gosh I was like watching an old
school basketball game like f*cking
people playing like adidas superstars
and now we dancing them
yeah yeah okay so um that's your
background as a photographer so I'm
curious like what got you into hip-hop
oh so uh all right if you could kind of
see this canvas here it's pretty big
it's a bye to my friend they're also in
a 3d crew and I kind of grew up with
them in middle school and high school
but kind of like how like a lot of dance
crews I'll just a dude that hanging
around I thought it was cool so I never
got into it as like deep as everyone
else did but that's where I was just
like I was like it was a certain point
in the nineties where you you could hear
good radio hip-hop music and then there
was a layer of underground does really
rain laughing and then like you're
listening to rap where people who are
talking about like depression or like
how do you want to like viciously murder
someone but to say so creatively or like
how much they hate this person and it
was just like oh my glue what are you
saying you got a reminded bag it was
just like like this era of just like
like you have to really really dig or
know about it was like whispers it check
this out dude it's the era of when
you're walking down the street in like
the city and the dude walks up with like
a Walkman and he's like hey yo you want
to listen to this hey you got to listen
to this though
Hey and then you're like nah bro I got
somewhere to be
but you don't got anywhere to be you're
just walking which is I ain't trying to
listen to that sh*t I'm trying to hear
that cash money millionaire yeah this is
what the time when like you can actually
trust people not necessary trust when
someone got like a Hutton it's tape out
of your trunk that's how to short
started in Oakland but nice short
whiskey so there yeah
you were selling those I was like yo man
check out like this is the dopest sh*t
you listen to that a lot of Bay Area
hip-hop and like some Sacramento have
thought they just like just about it
almost everywhere like one you have to
have a really good producer or DJ just
set it up to for you to even like make
this stuff and hope to sell out your
stuff because it wasn't drugged it
wasn't like
let me get some of that because I
already knew what it was you took it and
guess yeah and you have to realize the
people be like this is what's up mmm and
sometimes I mean like that's how it like
sure not musicians are able to skirt
like having to have it distribute to the
record company I have like their team
just they saw this as the mixtape will
change the production it's still my name
but it's like I get a hundred percent of
my proceeds up instead of like like a
quarter on every album myself thanks for
interviewing me I must be sweating up a
storm and being well chopped be with
yeah well hopefully the video is better
you know once I edit this hopefully it
turns out a lot better well yeah it was
great having you dude
I really hope this pandemic is over soon
so we can actually do this in person
because I'd much prefer that I don't
like doing these video calls but yeah
and yeah I just feeling the vibe too and
then also just like you know like I like
it when it's a little bit looser and
then we just like rift for a little bit
too
yeah yeah yeah yeah well so before we
close out do you have any last words or
any shoutouts or any plugs I don't know
check out my Instagram page
that's where you post all your photos
and stuff yeah and one thing I want to
tell people it's like if you see manage
am not doing anything gonna hit me up
and just say hey can you take a picture
of us because that's the one thing I
noticed everyone always get a bunch of
the cool shots but sometimes you also
want memories too that you're like hey
you know what
this was my first jam that I went with
you know my older crew mate that's
training me so you know those memories
I mean sometimes it could be better
preserved as opposed to having just
straight off your phone that you never
print out anything yeah
and he's talking mostly to those
Instagram thoughts out there so
alright man it was great having you on
let's get one more
owl to leave this show 1 2 3
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